GURPS, hate it or love it? https://idiomdrottning.org/gurps-love #texts #rpg #recensioner fedirantâblog
@Sandra ....I mean if someone wanted to run a game of Transhuman Space or Discworld i might* be interested.
*i would be
The first GURPS book I ever got was GURPS Discworld, the first edition, the one with GURPS Lite in the back that said it was a complete game (it wasnâtâit didnât work w/o the full game).
The first crack in the GURPS fandom armor for me then was reading a GURPS Discword adventure in Pyramid or wherever and seeing that it double statted for WaRP. Which just looked like a way better game.
@Sandra @Capheind GURPS has flaws, but the biggest isn't so much the game, it's that everything is front loaded. You have to understand the entire, large game in order to start the game (well).
I like to use Fate as being somewhere on the opposite end of the spectrum. You start with minimal understanding and... discover that there's no game to discover, you have to build it yourself.
I think ideal games would be somewhere in the middle.
I really, really want to get back into Fate now that Fate Condensed is out. I want a fresh canvas for my house rules and hacks now that Iâve taken my souped up version of D&D so far (#2097e). Not saying Fate is good out of the box but itâs really the game I wanna start working on.
But looks like next campaign is gonna be based on BitD. Maybe. If I can get my proverbial in gear and start working on that.
The basic BRP/GURPS/Fudge abilities+skills+advantages engine is what I grew up with but that I really soured on over the years, because it uses the same mechanic for things that really should be different.
Talking, interacting, looking at things, opening chests, exploring, resource management and logistics⊠that shouldnât be skill roll based. Dice can be involved but the dice should be on the side of the âworldâ not the charâi.e. âOK, thatâs gonna take half an hourââwhich has impact on random encounters etc.
@Sandra @Capheind I get that point, but I also disagree somewhat.
It's the same logic as D&D's combat rolls: it's not that you *swing wild* on a missed roll, it's that your thrust and parry with the opponent didn't land a solid enough blow to matter (unlike GURPS attacks).
Similarly, the skill in searching a chest isn't that someone can't do it, it's that they may not find something that's there.
But yes, GURPS is inconsistent here - like most systems.
@Sandra @Capheind ... the first is really a question of the guiding dimension you're currently on.
Ok, so assume games are multidimensional things. In order to keep any kind of order to the actions of the players, you have to pick a dimension that is guiding all the others. In combat, that is usually time.
Varying movement speeds between characters is another way of saying that the space dimension is subordinate to time.
@Sandra @Capheind that is, you don't change the time intervals (rounds), but you adjust how far a character can move in that fixed time slot. Same with the limit on actions.
Because combat needs to be tightly synchronised, that's a good choice here.
But that doesn't mean that it's a good choice when synchronisation is not so necessary. As you say, searching is going to be successful eventually, so really you should determine how long it takes.
@Sandra @Capheind GURPSes ability focus basically never loses that time dimension as being guiding, which translates into degrees of success rather than amount of time as a result. It's perfectly appropriate for in-combat searches!
Other systems are more explicit in saying rolls are only necessary in tense situations, which is another way of saying that events need to be synchronised at the moment.
I think it would be more meaningful to have a degree of...
@Sandra @Capheind The second thing is what I call the pivot of the game, i.e. what the entire mechanics revolve around.
In D&D it's classes. In GURPS it's abilities or skills. In other games it's equipment.
It's the fundamental choice you can make as a player to influence how the game is played.
In D&D, your class limits your choices. In some games you can unlock the ability to shoot when you equip a bow, etc.
@Sandra @Capheind What I mean when I say GURPSish is that often enough I prefer abilities as the pivot. That's all.
You can use other things to make the choices a bit more palatable.
Rolemaster uses classes which influence skill costs. Traveller uses the service terms as something that funnels these choices. And then there are templates, etc.
What I find fascinating and somewhat unwieldy in Fate is that the pivot is essentially group consensus.
What I mean when I say GURPSish is that often enough I prefer abilities as the pivot. Thatâs all.
Rightâ„, but thatâs the one thing I like the least about GURPS. I find that the abilities become a lens, an interface in which the players interact with the world. I wanna search, I hit the âSearch itemsâ button, I wanna fight, I hit the âShortswordâ button, I wanna talk, I hit the âFast-talkâ button. I donât want that.
I want a much more freeform and item-driven approach. Similar to what Knave later explored.
What I find fascinating and somewhat unwieldy in Fate is that the pivot is essentially group consensus.
Thatâs gonna be something I mod out of my own version obv. The 2097Fate I daydream about in my head is pretty different from how itâs sometimes been played in the past. I wanna lean into the FKR discussions.
@Sandra @Capheind Yes, this "lens" is what is sometimes called verbs, though that might come too much from computer game design. Verbs are the basic actions you have available for interacting with the world.
They're (almost) always there. Something like GURPS makes them very explicit.
Rolemaster is a bit better in that it lets you roll any skill, it just gives you a basic success rate when untrained (it's got issues there as well).
right, and as to those pivotal skills, versus playing out scenes with regard to equipment, room features, conflicting NSCs or whatever: I like to think of skill checks as short cuts, one might want to use, but doesn't have to.
If you want to play out a social scene, go ahead. Convince me and I'll sure add a bonus to the reaction roll. And if you enjoy solving the puzzle trap yourself, all the better, let's play it out and forget about any skills for now ...
Systems that have both skills and play (for example both âRoll Fast-Talkâ and âWhat do you say to the guard?â) come in four varieties: Basically four models:
- Skills IOR play required. You can use one or the other, your choice.
- Skills AND play required. You need to look in the right place and roll high.
- Skills required. Play can give flavor, or a bonus, but does not matter. You get advantage or +4 if you speak well.
- Play required. Skills can give flavor but does not matter. You need leverage to try, but you can get an even better result if you then additionally roll high.
@wandererbill They are part of game design.
Many groups do their own game design at the table to fill in gaps in the printed design or to change things that are specified one way in the printed design but they want to the other way. Thatâs common in RPGs.
I make design decisions deliberately at every levelâgame selection, house rule writing, prepping, and at the tableâalbeit with mediocre success of course. Itâs all a big experiment.