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I posted another blog post today, about why it is hard to move away from D&D as the primary RPG out there, and what to consider when suggesting games to move to: canageek.wordpress.com/2020/07

@Canageek does GURPS not have infrastructure? (also are we counting Pathfinder as a separate game?)

@DialMforMara Pathfinder has some, Call of Cthulhu a lot, GURPS very little. It has lots of sourcebooks but only a handful of adventures.

@DialMforMara@wandering.shop @Canageek@tabletop.social I like GURPS and I absolutely love the source books. I just wish I didn't cringe when thinking of character creation now. (I was about to say it was a really crunchy game, but I think most of the crunch is in character creation)

@Canageek In the very early days, I had the hardest time figuring out what you were supposed to *do* in, say, Traveller or Runequest, other than the intro adventures that came in box sets.

AD&D had no such problem.

#ttrpg

@Canageek Tunnels & Trolls has piles of adventures, and loads of Solos for self isolation.

@Canageek I kind of disagree that DMing D&D is easy. There are so many D&D adventures precisely because D&D requires so much preparation. Even using modules it is still a fair bit of effort.

But I think that just reinforces the point about infrastructure. Many games are built specifically to not require premade adventures, because they just can't rely on this level of infrastructure. Which isn't necessarily better or worse, but is certainly a different kind of game.

@eldaking I would argue that.

a) You still need a plot, NPC personalities, locations etc

b) Most DMs aren't the skills adventure craftspeople they think they are

So even in a theoretically easy game you would still benefit from a pre-written adventure with built in plot twists and characters and such

@eldaking (That said, you could then steal them from another game, I know a GM who steals CoC adventures for his GURPS game)

@Canageek Yeah, but in most "light" games those are created more on the fly, while in D&D you need to do more stuff outside of the game sessions. Of course because of things like stat blocks and maps, but also because of the approach to how to tell the story.

Some games are built for improvising NPCs and plots. They have systems to create prompts and stuff, making it easier, but also you can't really plan much in advance.

@eldaking See my previous posts about how such games aren't a replacement for D&D

@Canageek Yeah, I agree. Like I said, not better or worse but certainly different.

@eldaking These posts are in response to the twitter discussion going on.

A lot of posters talk about how we should move away from D&D due to WotC doing bad things. But then they talk about all the indie RPGs out there and how people should just play one of those instead...

and I wanted to point out that there are very valid reasons that people don't play those: They aren't the same type of game, they don't have premade adventures, etc

@Canageek Ah, I didn't even know there was a twitter discussion. But I think I got most of the idea from what you said anyway?

I might have not been very clear, but I pretty much agree with everything you are saying. Your posts put into words a lot of what bugs me as someone tired of D&D but unable to really replace it.
I was thinking a bit about how D&D is still a heavy game even with adventures, but it does different things because of it, but I think I get what you are saying in general.

@Canageek @eldaking There's thousands of adventures for OSR games, which aren't "D&D" in the sense of 5E or Pathfinder.

I do a fair amount with BRP-types, which other than CoC don't have many adventures, but you don't tend to write the meatgrinder dungeons for them either. Longer stat blocks than OSR, but there's old FOES books to copy from, or they're not hard to roll up for lighter ones like OpenQuest.

@mdhughes @eldaking that's fair, I tend to ignore osr games as I find their mechanics frustrating.

sure you have 1/10 the rules, but the rules you do have don't acknowledge any game design improvements made since 1990 and I still have to look up a THAC0 every attack roll...

@Canageek @eldaking About half of them do ascending AC. Or AC-as-modifier (my preference). Or damage reduction or…

That's the nice part about OSR. Everyone makes the game they want.

@mdhughes @eldaking that has improved a lot since the last time I looked then, in 2012 or so I sat down and looked over every retroclone and 90% of them were so close I couldn't tell the difference

@Canageek @mdhughes @eldaking Honestly the last time I looked at the OSR stuff it was down to a few rules here and there, usually having to do with AC and how saving throws were handled. I'll admit that my survey was brief though.

@Canageek @mdhughes @eldaking And frankly roll-under makes more sense to my head anyway that I stopped trying to find BRP in D&D and just went full-on BRP.

That said I do like the rules for Monsters and Magic by Sarah Newton and would consider that my retro-clone of choice.

@Canageek @eldaking What was even out then, LL and BF? Lamentations of the Flame Princess is all AAC and a bunch of custom mechanics. Swords & Wizardry has both old and D20 mechanic options for most things. Microlite's got every variety in just a few pages.

My own tastes are either very-strict-Holmes-OD&D (like Blueholme's not strict enough) or completely weird Arnesonian/Gamebook stuff. Or my variant Microlite20 game Stone Halls & Serpent Men.

@mdhughes @eldaking microlite74 head just come out, labyrinth Lord was around, swords and wizardry was around, and whitebox and redbox were around.

microlight is one of the ones that I refer to in that 10%, so did you sending the 20 but all its other mechanics are straight out of 1974

@Canageek I’ve used D&D adventures with lighter fantasy roleplaying rules without much extra prep.

@Canageek The dark eye.. but most things are still only german.
30+ years of world-history with map, wiki, detailed places etc.

avespfade.de/ - take an arbitrary route and you can basically do every adventure in it .. you got cities/villages with rich backstory to embed, some detailed characters (living & historic) and for the rest you can just roll your own.

Be it detective work, hijacking on the highway or the dungeon-crawl.

And there are rules for *everything* ... ;)

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